Retool, you lost my business

🤝 Discussion
1

I see that you added external users a couple years ago, and I thank you for that, but it is not enough. I have two separate projects that I was considering retool for (have use retool on a 3rd projects for a couple years). But your pricing model for external users still is not good enough.

I want to develop a SAAS. In the beginning, this will be small, but could grow to 10,000 users plus if successful. So I can't pony up the big cash for the enterprise version right now. Because you have crippled the Business plan enough that I can't use it to get started, I therefore have found another platform. Here are the problems:

  1. You have not blessed us with API calls to add/remove users. This makes user management a pain.

  2. Your user invite emails is slatherd in Retool branding with none of my own. My external users will be very confused. Whats Retool? Again behind the enterprise paywall.

  3. You are sending email spam regarding retool to external users. Super Cringe.

  4. The mobile app for users is branded Retool, including the login. Again, confusing for customers. Also behind the Enterprise.

  5. Self Hosting is not an option on the Business Plan with External Users. Why? My app might have to be HIPAA compliant, and I cant do that with the hosted.

This mismatch of branding may be explainable to internal users, but not external users.

My other app has all of these issues and more. I want to deliver completed project files to customers as I finish work for them. Would be nice to give them a portal to download. Problem is, now I have paying $5-8/month/customer. Some of my customers only hire me a couple times a year. So that means I have to keep paying to keep their portal alive? What if they only use me one time?

I get it that you are trying to make $, but you are leaving your customers behind. I suggest switching to a usage base model and avoid all of these issues.

There are other Enterprise features that you can keep that are truly enterprise, without crippling the Business plan so much that people cant start with you.

Now maybe your business plan is to only go after the big boys with cash to burn for the enterprise, but you are leaving a lot of little guys (which will grow up to be big guys) out in the cold.

Your invite system is

2

First, sorry but I can't answer any of your questions or address any of the issues you have

...but I am a bit curious about this. It sounds like you're being paid to create an app as a one time charge, then you're hosting it w Retool (Retool Cloud) for them for free and eating the $5-8/month/customer. Are you unable to charge your customers for hosting as well? You're making web apps, so one way or another they'll have to have the app hosted somewhere, and right now it sounds like they're taking advantage of you for free hosting. Even if you delivered just a React.js project folder, they'd still have to pay for the Vercel hosting (or hostGator or whatever)... so as it is, they're paying for the SA part and getting the AS part (of SAAS) for freezies.

In general, SAAS is meant for you to make and host software then your customers pay a monthly fee, part of which is used to help pay the $5-8 and the rest for development costs.

There might be some confusion here, there are 2 types of apps: Software Applications and Web Applications. Now, Technically, Web Apps are a type of "software" and Software Apps are a type of "software" (like a cat is an 'animal', a dog is also an 'animal' or a Crypt Kitty is... sigh an 'animal'), which is why you can have SAAS businesses based around Web Apps which are accessed via online portals.... Because of the nature of Web Apps which are 'always online' and must be hosted on a server, these businesses charge one-time development fee + monthly subscription fee (the subscription covers the hosting fee, access and continued development).

There are models that include one-time fees (perpetual licenses), but they provide access to a single version in the form of a downloadable native application (Software App) since this is the only way to guarantee they have access to their software for their entire life.

The exception: PWAs (Progressive Web Apps), these are installable and can work offline, like normal native applications (Software Apps).

The Problem: You're using Retool, so while it is 100% possible to wrap a normal web app in a PWA, it requires adding an App Manifest at the root project folder and creating/spinning-up a Service Worker.... both of which I don't believe we're able to do within Retool.

tldr;
I think you're using a payment model intended for SAAS businesses based on Software Apps while using Web Apps. A one-time fee model works for Software Apps because once downloaded, the user gets what they get... if you make a new update or new version, users have to pay for the update or for the new version and redownload. You can make it work with Web Apps, but you either need a high enough fee to cover hosting for an extended period of time and a plan where within this 'extended period of time' you're able to either get another customer from them (referal, think pyramid scheme... but legal lol) OR you peg their access to a specific version and for each update users can either pass on the update or pay a fee and get their access updated to the newest version.... also don't forget a disclaimer to cover yourself for hosting outages and EOL (End of Life... so at some point you can choose to stop hosting the web app even if it belongs to a client w a perpetual type license.... like paying for an 'always live' game that the devs shut down... sorta, but I'm no lawyer so take it w a grain of salt or whatever that saying is)

for reference, if it matters at all, I'm a CTO (although, I prefer to just call myself 'the programmer' lol)

3

Hi @Highway20Productions, we appreciate you taking the time to express this feedback as you move to another platform, as opposed to alternatively not letting us know how we could improve. One thing I can address right away: the email spam to external users is an issue that is being fixed.

Next is pricing: the pricing model and the differences between Business and Enterprise is an ongoing discussion at Retool, and it's a careful balance between incentivizing upgrades to Enterprise and being able to provide the right level of support to all of our customers. Ultimately, our success is dependent on our customers scaling with our product.

Locking features behind Enterprise isn't so much about gating our services to those who can pay for it, as it is about ensuring that there are adequate resources, controls, and security available to the largest and most sensitive use-cases. Especially when we're talking about apps with large amounts of external users, it requires that extra level of care. Enterprise features might not be absolutely necessary when your business isn't at that level yet, although obviously would be nice to have (ex: branding).

Either way, we hear your concerns! I surfaced this internally and the conversation is ongoing. As a startup our pricing model is ever-evolving. Thanks again for your feedback.

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4

would it be possible to get a FR for like an À la carte type pricing for individual Enterprise features? It'd be to help support start-ups and small businesses w small teams scale slowly. like, if we were to upgrade to Enterprise right now I'd have 5 new features to implement, which I can only do 1 at a time... so for us, as an example, if we could next month add Error monitoring and observability, then as we grow add Source Control, then later on SSO, Spaces, ect. before paying for full Enterprise, it'd help bridge the gap between tiers. Without having a large team, paying for Enterprise means paying for lots of features that will be going unused while things are updated, implemented and/or migrated. It would also let small companies spend a month paying for things like SSO so they can get the framework set then choose to not pay for it until it's needed or can be afforded but know that everything is in place for when it's turned on.... like a paid trial i guess

5

OK, thanks for listening. I still have a project on Retool where the pricing works and love it. I know you guys are trying to move beyond just Internal Tools and move into allowing us to use Retool create apps that we can then resell on a per user basis to others. But as stated above, the barrier ($) is very high to start with Retool and grow into something larger.

Hopefully you can make a pricing module where we can make SAAS apps with Retool, start small, grow big and then pay Retool the deserved enterprise big bucks.

Scott

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